EP 42: Tony Fadell and Ian Rogers: Creating the iPod, Bernard Arnault, Steve Jobs, crypto UX and more.


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If you had to pick between Steve Jobs and Bernard Arnault to run a company, who would you choose? In this episode we pose the question to two guests who have both built amazing companies and have known and worked with Arnault and Jobs (see their answer at 7:25).

Tony Fadell and Ian Rogers have a long list of iconic companies and products and brands tied to them. Here’s a partial list: the iPod, Nest, Beats, LVMH, Ledger. We get into all the usual topics you would expect. How was Jobs to work with ? What makes Bernard Arnault special – and did you know he has a bunch of NFTs? What was it like to build the iPod? The design effort that has gone into building Ledger Stax.

What makes this episode truly come alive is not so much the above but the sheer joy Tony and Ian have for building great products and the special friendship they share. At many moments, Aarthi and I are just spectators watching as they do what good friends do: ribbing each other, sharing stories and generally having a good time. And so did we.

0:00 Intro
7:16 Steve Jobs and Bernard Arnault
15:00 What Jobs would have thought of crypto
16:15 Craft of iPod and Ledger
27:00 Ian Rogers’ career arc
31:20 Doing hard things
36:50 Making tech cool
44:15 Sustainability and Optimism to Solve the climate crisis
48:05 Ian and Tony’s legacy